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    Invasion Discussion

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    That Guy

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    Invasion Discussion

    Post by That Guy on Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:17 pm

    I like the concept but disagree with parts...

    I know this is WIP and is a draft, but this is why I keep saying, "Clarity is key."

    ...or just want to help have 48 hours to intercept your party(If you brought one). After this 48 hours and nobody has intercepted the city, castle or group base doors/gates are destroyed. If you are intercepted, the residents will have 15 post to stop you before the gates are destroyed and anyone is allowed to enter...

    This almost sounds like the attacking person makes a post, and after that 48 hours, he may make 15 posts regardless of posting order (Since if no one posts and it is an unannounced thread) he may solo a group thread into a base. If one is desperate enough, one could write a decently worded infiltration, separate it into 15 chapters, and post it in a spamming attempt. This could completely render the defense unable to do anything.

    That can be solved by wording in the rules appropriately giving time reprieve to the defending party.

    ... After making the new thread the defenders now have a total of 30 post to stop the attacking force...

    Now you sound like a game of mortal combat. When the sixty seconds run out cause character A did more damage to character B than character B because he hit-and-ran till the round timer time ran out, he wins by default.

    I would disagree with this entirely.
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    Kaseki

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Kaseki on Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:20 pm

    This should be based on missions, not just... random posting.
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    Wave Darkbright

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Wave Darkbright on Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:23 pm

    LMAO that last part had me dying, but I see your point so what do you suggest? And how what does a mission have to do with invading a place? If you want it go take it.
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    Kaseki

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Kaseki on Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:26 pm

    Because then this site is now completely combat oreintated, thus making anyone that is God, a living God-Mod, all Demi-Gods will gang up on gods, or wipe out any Human Tier users, and force people to give up everything.

    This Invasion, as it is now currently worded is a forced Fighting-Social, that has no means of a wait time or notification. This makes anyone that prewrites a post powerful to take over any kingdom... even if they are low rank... which makes no sense IC.
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    Wave Darkbright

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Wave Darkbright on Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:49 pm

    You still arent giving any explanation as to why this would be a mission? And what you said about people's ranks wont matter seeing as almost all of us are gods. So what suggestion do you have to actually make the system work rather than changing it into something completely different?
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    Kaseki

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Kaseki on Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:50 pm

    Mission = Invasion of a mission

    Actual Posting = Attacking, not an "invasion"

    At least, how I see it.
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    Fabled Emperor Karna
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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Fabled Emperor Karna on Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:55 pm

    Most of us are Gods, true but once the site opens there will be plenty of humans and demi-gods to go around, I think that's what he's getting at.
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    Wave Darkbright

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Wave Darkbright on Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:01 pm

    Invasions are supposed to be fighting based though. And as it stands the only thing that really could be tweaked is as Toba said clarify things. Like make sure people know they have to have a posting order, and make the second stage not time based. Which I can agree with for the most part. So maybe you would like to clarify what you would like to do better instead of being so vague?
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    Kaseki

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Kaseki on Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:58 pm

    Well actually, the first thing to complete is the Tier System.

    Seeing that

    Tier 5 > Tier 1
    God > Human

    However...

    Tier 5 Human << God Tier 1.

    That's what I'm getting at. You'll have gods claiming things with ease. And on top of that.. when someone does claim territory... how do you go about setting who has what piece of land after this happens?
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    Wave Darkbright

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Wave Darkbright on Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:05 pm

    We have nothing to do with the tier system, Tobi and Oski are doing that. We are supposed to do this so the tier system shouldnt be important to us. But setting who owns what is nothing but a simple chart away, isnt any to complicated.
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    Kaseki

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Kaseki on Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:57 pm

    Setting it so people who are Tier 5 Gods aren't always messing around with Tier 1 Humans is important. Systems are meant to work together, that's how you prevent clashing. Merging the aspects, rather than having a bunch of individual concepts.

    So, that being said, it needs to be limited on who can invade who, what is gained from invading, how to undergo a change of ownership of an area, and how an invasion is done.

    -Limit based on tiers, so powerful players, namely gods, aren't taking over kingdoms just because they can.
    - Rewards based on the area taken over, as well as the defending v. attacking team. Such as coins that increase based on the difference of tier.
    - A list that perhaps says what kingdom owns what land? (Tricky, considering this would involve GFX to be done right, taking one section and moving it into control of another...)
    - Word Count, Post Count, Alerting on an invasion...

    That kind of stuff.

    (So yes, we have EVERYTHING to do with the tier system. It's like saying plot doesn't matter to anything. Everything works together.)
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    Wave Darkbright

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Wave Darkbright on Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:12 pm

    You are still being vague on what you suggest we do. Can you actually say what you would like to see changed and what not, so that we can all see and know exactly what you are saying.
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    Kaseki

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Kaseki on Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:03 pm

    I'll post the full plan thing.. kinda tomorrow.

    Been up for like 30 hours straight wih no food. I'm going loony. XD
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    Kaseki

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Kaseki on Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:25 am

    Wave Darkbright wrote:Here to Invade an opposing group's base or an empire's castle or invading any place, you must follow a few rules. Since we do understand that plenty of humans, demi gods, and gods alike shall attempt to upset the world with your shenanigans, a system has been devised to allow you to do so.

    Okay, it's understood how this is to "disrupt" the world and so forth, but think about how this REALLY ties into the "Ranking System". Would it be fair for a god to just take over realms because of their sheer overwhelming power? I mean, sure it makes sense that Oski would have the power to enslave countries, as does The Gate Keeper and others... but really? That kinda makes Gods have everything. Even if they don't start with free stuff, their power alone can literally tear countries apart. So there needs to be a rule on ranking on who you can attack. Such as anyone in the same Tier (Human, DemiGod, God...) as well as 2 Tiers below and above.

    Meaning a Tier 1 God can attack any God's Country, as well as Demi God Tier 4 and 5.
    Making a Tier 3 Human only able to attack Human Tier based opponents... and so forth.

    As it makes sense IC that a god could take over the countries... you will never have a site that will grow if you have 6 gods running around fucking up everyone's shit because they have no rules bound to them/


    Wave Darkbright wrote:
    Now how this shall work is rather simple, first and foremost, you must title your thread as an infiltration thread. The inability to do so shall result in the thread not being treated as an infiltration thread, and probably even voided. Next those within the target area, or just want to help have 48 hours to intercept your party(If you brought one). After this 48 hours and nobody has intercepted the city, castle or group base doors/gates are destroyed. If you are intercepted, the residents will have 15 post to stop you before the gates are destroyed and anyone is allowed to enter. Depending on the number of people attacking and defending, along with your personal preference people in fights may split off into other threads. However these split threads will still follow the original 15 post countdown of the original thread. For example if the original infiltration thread lasted for 5 post and then split into two new ones, the new threads now have 10 post remaining. If you have managed to get pass the first stage, than you may proceed to exit the infiltration thread and make a new one that must have the invasion tag in the title.

    - Post Order must be set
    - Notifying defending party. (PMs sent, if they don't respond in 2 days Via PM, but have read it, infiltration proceeds. If Defending party are all on some inactivity... well then we have to adjust to that too)
    - Cooldown on attacking kingdoms
    - Decree declaring who now owns the land... (This could be done with a simple Sticky post.
    - And so forth...


    Wave Darkbright wrote:
    After making the new thread the defenders now have a total of 30 post to stop the attacking force. The invasion thread will have the same rules as the infiltration thread except fr it now having a 30 post countdown. One of two things can happen depending on the outcome of the thread. If the defending side wins they may do whatever they wish with the conquered area. This includes destroy it, take it as their own, or maybe sell it back to the owners or another nation/group. However if the defenders win the battle at any stage they have secured their land, however some damage may be done and will have to pay to get it repaired(Or leave it a mess your choice). The amount of money you will have to pay will be determined by 2 admins who go over the thread and determine the damage. Also any attackers that were not killed or escaped during the last parts of the thread, are at the mercy of the defenders. They may be killed, enslaved, or kept as prisoners.

    This could be solved just with the above... and so on and so on.

    Everything That Guy summed this up, more or less.
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    Wave Darkbright

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Wave Darkbright on Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:55 am

    I think your rule on the not being able to attack people far weaker than you is fine except one thing. I think that if the group you are attacking has someone of equal rank to you, I think you should still be able to attack. Because even if everyone else is weaker, they still have someone who is strong enough to hold you off and put up a good fight. Other than that I think its cool.
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    Urek
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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Urek on Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:58 am

    I don't see why you're gonna take something so trivial and make it into a complex system.

    Invasion works like this;

    [Invasion] thread posted by attacker(s.)

    Defending force steps in and posts.

    Said thread goes on until one side defeats the other. If no defense is posted up after 48 hours then the attacking force has all rights to the land, prisoners(the people who are there but did not attempt to fight or flee no matter the rank), etc

    The winning side claims the prisoners, land, etc.

    All people residing in said place as their "home" or group or w/e have 48 hours to post an "escape" thread, which can be intercepted by an attacker. If said thread goes unnoticed for another 48 hours then they're home free if not they must fight. Of course this will need some regulations on who can stop who but thats something that can be worked on.


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    Kaseki

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Kaseki on Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:02 am

    Urek wrote:I don't see why you're gonna take something so trivial and make it into a complex system.

    Invasion works like this;

    [Invasion] thread posted by attacker(s.)

    Defending force steps in and posts.

    Said thread goes on until one side defeats the other. If no defense is posted up after 48 hours then the attacking force has all rights to the land, prisoners(the people who are there but did not attempt to fight or flee no matter the rank), etc

    The winning side claims the prisoners, land, etc.

    All people residing in said place as their "home" or group or w/e have 48 hours to post an "escape" thread, which can be intercepted by an attacker. If said thread goes unnoticed for another 48 hours then they're home free if not they must fight. Of course this will need some regulations on who can stop who but thats something that can be worked on.

    - How does the defending force know their being attacked?
    - Is it fair then that Humans would be invaded by gods on a daily basis?
    - How often can someone get invaded?
    - What is the post/word count?
    - Is there a count?
    - If not, then is 15 (50 word) posts = 15 (250 word) posts?

    That's what i'm trying to solve.
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    Wave Darkbright

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Wave Darkbright on Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:04 am

    I mean I thought it was simple the way I originally did it. However it seems that others dont think it will let gods run rampant and own everything.
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    Kaseki

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Kaseki on Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:05 am

    No.. that's just what I've been trying to get at...

    It DOES let Gods trample and destroy everything.
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    Urek
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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Urek on Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:11 am

    Kaseki wrote:
    Urek wrote:I don't see why you're gonna take something so trivial and make it into a complex system.

    Invasion works like this;

    [Invasion] thread posted by attacker(s.)

    Defending force steps in and posts.

    Said thread goes on until one side defeats the other. If no defense is posted up after 48 hours then the attacking force has all rights to the land, prisoners(the people who are there but did not attempt to fight or flee no matter the rank), etc

    The winning side claims the prisoners, land, etc.

    All people residing in said place as their "home" or group or w/e have 48 hours to post an "escape" thread, which can be intercepted by an attacker. If said thread goes unnoticed for another 48 hours then they're home free if not they must fight. Of course this will need some regulations on who can stop who but thats something that can be worked on.

    - How does the defending force know their being attacked?
    - Is it fair then that Humans would be invaded by gods on a daily basis?
    - How often can someone get invaded?
    - What is the post/word count?
    - Is there a count?
    - If not, then is 15 (50 word) posts = 15 (250 word) posts?

    That's what i'm trying to solve.

    If they don't moniter for an invasion knowing it could happen or get told through cbox or w/e its their fault, the thread is clearly labeled.

    Yes its fair its part of the game it happens, sure it might be unfair if its constantly happening but staff would have to step in at that point.

    Well I mean after you get invaded once, you're open for invasion again whether you lose or win, but i could see if the defending team one maybe putting a few day rule for repairs etc is viable.

    As for the post/word count and everything the site has a word count already set up, and for the post count theres no need for the one it will go on until a; the battle ends with a victor, or b; one of the sides surrenders to the other.


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    Kaseki

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Kaseki on Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:14 am

    Yes, it's their kingdom, we get that. But obviously we all have lives. Not every single thread is going to be watched over. Some will be made without even being noticed.



    But it needs to be broken down.

    - Word Count
    - Post Count
    - How posts are done
    - What order to post in...

    It's simple to you, because you made it. Now we just need to put your thoughts down... and simplify it so there's never any confusion... (or to minimize it, rather)
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    Urek
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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Urek on Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:24 am

    Kaseki wrote:Yes, it's their kingdom, we get that. But obviously we all have lives. Not every single thread is going to be watched over. Some will be made without even being noticed.



    But it needs to be broken down.

    - Word Count
    - Post Count
    - How posts are done
    - What order to post in...

    It's simple to you, because you made it. Now we just need to put your thoughts down... and simplify it so there's never any confusion... (or to minimize it, rather)

    48 hours is more than long enough to make a post of defense. If someone from the place doesn't see it, i'm sure they will be notified via the cbox or pm or w/e. Say if they didn't have time for work then they could request something like an extension for a viable reason.

    It doesn't need any of those.

    It works like a normal thread its just for the pot of gold.
    The site has a predetermined word count.
    The post order is also predetermined.  PLayer A post, Player B post, Player C posts,  = A>B>C>repeat.
    If someone wants to join they join after the last person in posting order ie player C = A>B>C>D.
    That is all proper rp'ing I shouldn't have to define it.

    Then the thread would go on until either side wins or gives.

    If someone doesn't


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    Wave Darkbright

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Wave Darkbright on Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:24 am

    He didnt make it I did so.... Just thought I would say that. However the post count will be removed for the second stage. Im going to leave the first stage as is. But for the most part I agree with Urek.
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    Kaseki

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Kaseki on Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:28 am

    Urek wrote:
    Kaseki wrote:Yes, it's their kingdom, we get that. But obviously we all have lives. Not every single thread is going to be watched over. Some will be made without even being noticed.



    But it needs to be broken down.

    - Word Count
    - Post Count
    - How posts are done
    - What order to post in...

    It's simple to you, because you made it. Now we just need to put your thoughts down... and simplify it so there's never any confusion... (or to minimize it, rather)

    48 hours is more than long enough to make a post of defense. If someone from the place doesn't see it, i'm sure they will be notified via the cbox or pm or w/e. Say if they didn't have time for work then they could request something like an extension for a viable reason.

    It doesn't need any of those.

    It works like a normal thread its just for the pot of gold.
    The site has a predetermined word count.
    The post order is also predetermined.  PLayer A post, Player B post, Player C posts,  = A>B>C>repeat.
    If someone wants to join they join after the last person in posting order ie player C = A>B>C>D.
    That is all proper rp'ing I shouldn't have to define it.

    Then the thread would go on until either side wins or gives.

    If someone doesn't

    ... Post order hasn't been stated in the thing wave posted. That's my point. Just because YOU think it's common RP... all it takes is one person to spam posts.

    And no, "Voiding" the invasion doesn't solve anything, if at all, it makes us look like half-assed staff who just sit back and wait people to fuck up so we can point fingers and say "No, don't touch that."

    TL;DR
    EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE STATED. Even if it sounds stupid, given, or redundant.
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    Wave Darkbright

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    Re: Invasion Discussion

    Post by Wave Darkbright on Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:32 am

    I dont understand why it needs to be stated. Its not like its any different than a regular combat thread. Like its truly nothing but common sense. Im having a problem wrapping my head around it.

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